Issues with removing water pump

[dfire]

Hello Everyone,


Im trying to replace my water pump on the 4.2 and of course the fan clutch wrench set I got as a loner did not fit over the bolts for the pulley. There was a 38mm wrench which is nice but the problem I am running into is getting the dang fan bolt out. I tried the chain method and it started bending the engine lift bracket and I don't want to damaged that thing. any ideas? Thanks!

 

[m.mcmillen]

You're turning it counter clockwise, correct? Are you hitting the wrench with a hammer? That would help shock the threads when you're loosening it. You could also try and get a heat gun and heat the clutch hub a bit.

 

[dfire]

I was only trying to pry it. ill give the hammer a try. unfortunately I don't have access to a heat gun and yes counter clock wise. Thanks!

 

[Mooseman]

If you have air tools and an air hammer, hit it with the air hammer on the hex in the direction to turn it counter-clockwise. If the tool is not strong enough, use a large adjustable crescent wrench or a pipe wrench along with the chain attached to the bolt for the bracket.

More reading:
Using chain for fan clutch removal
Fan clutch frozen to water pump

 

[dfire]

Thanks Moose! I do not have access to a air hammer. I did go grab a long pipe wrench before the store closed so that's going to be my next thing to try in the morning. I reviewed all the material you posted and thank you so much...... I looked high and low for answers and between the 2 posts it answered all my questions. On another note I bought a new fan clutch just in case I decided to replace it while I was doing the pump. The fan offers a good amount of resistance but its like off and on. It will offer some resistance when i spin it by hand and then smooth out for half a turn or so. Any chance you think that's a sign of it going bad?

 

[budwich]

since you have tried going in one direction with little luck, did you try going in the other direction "just in case". It might break the "resistance" to remove.

 

[mrrsm]

The Definitive Thread here at GMT Nation on "How to Replace the Water Pump on the GM 4.2L Engine" was created by @Matt and explains an elegant and simple way to remove "The Jesus Nut" on the Fan-Clutch. Here you go...

https://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/how-to-replace-the-water-pump.15639/

 

[Eric04]

That pipe wrench ought to get it done for you. The specialized "tool" offered at my local parts store rounded right the **** off. For less than $20 I grabbed an open end wrench of the appropriate size and the clutch busted loose straight away.

 

[budwich]

one question, how do you know the counter clockwise is the right direction? There are two types of clutches listed on these truck. A "reverse direction" clutch and "regular". I would think that a "reverse direction" one would need the bolt / nut to turn the other way.

 

[dfire]

im running out of ideas here..... this thing is stuck. budwich I'm going of the fan blades. I could be wrong.

 

[dfire]

MSSRSM that post is where I got the chain idea from. Well anyway I got a buddy coming over tomorrow who's going to help me with it. Thanks for all your info and support guys.

 

[budwich]

im running out of ideas here..... this thing is stuck. budwich I'm going of the fan blades. I could be wrong.

good point... you sure you can't get a propane torch at the nut to heat it up? I used a crescent wrench on my effort without any problems. I hate when one "item" stops a whole process.

 

[Mooseman]

Removal direction is rotating a wrench on the nut from the driver's side to the passenger side, looking at it from the front.

One post in those I posted he removed the pump with the fan together and got all new pump, fan and clutch. I say get a large adjustable or proper sized wrench and keep whacking at it with a large hammer.

To know if the clutch is good or not, you need to have it running.
How to test the electro-viscous fan clutch

 

[djthumper]

Several years ago I had a water pump that puked up in the church parking lot. I could not break the fan clutch to break loose. I took the radiator and everything out and took the water pump off with the fan still on there, it was still a pain to get off while in the vise.

 

[mrrsm]

Have look at DeBOSS' Technique on Breaking Loose "The Jesus Nut" on this similarly designed Engine at 1 Minute and 12 Seconds into this Video. Download and SLOMO the video to see just how hard he has to Smack that 1 1/2" Wrench with a Hammer to manage to break that Damned Nut loose:

 

[mrwitty_1]

From my experience with the clutch it is very easy to cross thread when installing because of the super fine threads. I don't know if it would be possible to completely seat the clutch if it was cross threaded. Just a thought.

 

[dfire]

Yeah I’ve definitely been hitting it hard enough. Brand new 18 inch pipe wrench lost most of its paint. Well I have a 1-1/2 inch wrench ordered. I’m going to give that a try and if that doesn’t work then I’ll just take it all out and have a shop break it loose for me. I think it’s cross-threaded. I’ve put a good 12 hrs into getting this thing off and ive tried various methods posted , reaserched. Thanks again everyone

 

[Expeditor]

I work on a big truck, as in tractor trailer. To handle really tight fasteners there is nothing that compares to using a torque multiplier wrench. Google it, just make sure the one you get fits in that spot. They sell them for lug nuts but those are too big to fix in tight spaces. Try to find a person that has one locally, I don't think you can rent from auto store, kind of pricey for one time use.
Here is video explaining.

 

[mrrsm]

I thought maybe there would be a Large, Inexpensive OTC Flavor of a C-Frame "Nut-Splitter" to obtain to attack the Fastener directly. BUT... the only one BIG enough to reach around Two of the Flats of "The Jesus Nut" with a 36mm Working Width ...was THIS Hydraulically Actuated Monster:



...and as you can see, while it would probably work to easily destroy the Nut... it also runs into Quite a Bit of 'Jingle' and is available on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UZ3CA0/?tag=gmtnation-20

However... failing that notion... if you can get an Extra Pair of Hands to You Help Out... You might try the other end of the Thermal Shock Scale and have the person direct a continuous spray out of a Can of CRC FREEZE-OFF while you wail away one last time with "The Hammer and Box-End Wrench Trick". I have had amazing success with using this Stuff on Badly Impacted Exhaust Manifold Fasteners on several occasions... so perhaps one last ditch effort with the "Cooler" side of the matter might work. Try not to breathe in too much of this Cold, Oily Vapor... or 'Brain' your Helper with that 3 Lb Sledge ...and maybe that Friggin' Thing will finally Budge and come off:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TFTH00/?tag=gmtnation-20

 

[Sparky]

I got lucky, borrowed the tool from a friend and mine popped off right easy when I was fixing my AC pulley bearing years ago. I did about cross thread it a billion times putting it back on. Why they used such fine threads I'd like to know...

 

[BrianF]

I used a fan clutch tool similar to this one. It made things a bit tight as you bolt it down to the clutch, which eats up a bit of the room for the large crescent wrench to fit on. It took two of us but it worked.... thankfully. Then upon reinstallation, a copious amount of antiseize was used.

good luck!

 

[dfire]

alright so its finally done.....MRRSM The CRC worked great. I Tried PB plaster and torches multiple different things to hold the pulley in place and got nowhere.....finally i bought a 12 point adapter and put it on a breaker bar and slammed it with CRC and knocked the living F*#K out of it lol.... finally done. Thanks again Everyone

 

[dfire]

Also one last thing....I removed the CMP to keep it from getting hit or damaged and was super tired that night after trying for about 7 hours to knock the hub nut loose and placed the bolt in my pocket instead of in a bin like I always do. Well someone had the idea of doing my laundry and now its gone. I know its 10mm but does anyone have the length and thread? Is this correct 6 mm x 1.00 Thread, 20 mm ?

 

[Mooseman]

CMP?

 

[mrrsm]

@dfire ... Glad that the Cold Solvent Approach worked... but its success was probably very much aided by a combination of trying out all of the prior suggestions to loosen that Damned Nut first.

A WORD OF WARNING:

FWIW... You face an incredible Risk and Danger by using ANY Parts Cleaning Solvent, Extreme Cooling or Lubrication Spray in ANY combination with Open Flame and/or Parts heated to Incandescence or when exposed to the UV Rays of Welding... as this Deadly Combination of either Tetra-Flouro-Ethane or Tri-Chlor-Ethane can become chemically excited during Combustion and CAN KILL YOU by releasing Highly Toxic Phosgene Gas into your immediate Breathing Space. This link below probably deserves to be resurrected from time to time to remind us all to be very wary of this problem:

https://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/brake-cleaner-spray-fire-death.14533/

 

[dfire]

Moose , the bolt for camshaft position sensor. MRRSM , I did read all the directions and cleaned the surface before applying. Thank you for letting me know though

 

[m.mcmillen]

M6 x 1.0 x 25

 

[dfire]

Thanks!